Jules: Is this optimistic err pessimistic? Philyra: Curiously both. Jules: What kind ah logic 's that? Andrei: Logic? Isn't that just a rhetorical tool fer winning arguments? Philyra: Many relativists have claimed that. Ellesha: Isn't there some higher order meta-logic with a pure mathematical beauty? Philyra: That would be a beautiful myth . . . Jules: What strange things are human dreams!